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>> Brandi Dean: We're
back here again

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in the Deep Space Habitat
mockup at Johnson Space Center,

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talking with Sarah Shull
from the Logistics Reduction

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and Repurposing Group.

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That's kind of a mouthful,

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but it basically means
taking what you have

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and making something more
useful out of it; right?

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>> Sarah Shull: Yeah.

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>> Brandi Dean: So we talked
last time about the cargo bags,

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and this time she has a
different project to show us.

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Tell us what that's
called again.

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>> Sarah Shull: So
this is another aspect

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of the Logistics project,

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and it's called the
heat-melt compactor.

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So it's a project actually led
by NASA Ames in conjunction

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with our team here at
Johnson Space Center,

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and they're looking at -- so
you generate all this trash

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in space, then, you know,
what can you do with it

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to save volume, compact
it down kind

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of like a terrestrial
trash compactor?

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The crew can load
their trash in,

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and then it compresses it down.

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It also heats it up, and
it will make these bricks.

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So these are tiles
that were made

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in the Gen 1 unit
out at NASA Ames.

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This one has kind of
office trash in it.

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>> Brandi Dean: Procedures,
I guess, tape and gauze.

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>> Sarah Shull: Yeah, gauze.

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There is some plastic
material in it.

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That's kind of what holds the
tile together and keeps it

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from springing back like a
terrestrial compactor might do.

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It also -- so it heats
the trash up hot enough

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that it does sterilize it.

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So if you have food
residue in here,

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it will stop the microbial
growth, stop the odors.

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So this actually --
this tile is just

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like I said, kind
of office trash.

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This one is actually
shuttle trash.

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So we took some trash that we
were able to get from STS 133.

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Sent it out to Ames, and they
compacted it down for us.

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>> Brandi Dean: Actual
space trash.

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>> Sarah Shull: Actual
space trash labeled

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as "critical space item".

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It does do a 95 percent
reduction in volume.

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So if nothing else, you
buy back that volume.

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>> Brandi Dean: So how big,
you know, how big, I guess,

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would the trash bag
be to make that?

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>> Sarah Shull: So this, again,
would be a 95 percent reduction.

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So if you kind of
multiply this by 20.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: That's
how big it's going to be.

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So if you could picture this
stacked up, maybe, you know,

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like a printer paper
size box full of trash.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: So
then we're also --

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as part of Logistics to Living,
which we talked about earlier --

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looking at what can you
do with these tiles?

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So in addition to just
reclaiming the volume,

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could you repurpose these
tiles in some manner?

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Because there's a 20-30
percent plastic content

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in the trash generated
in space average,

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there is some radiation
protection capability

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of these tiles.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: So
you may be able

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to get some additional
radiation shielding for free.

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>> Brandi Dean: So there's a
few different reasons then.

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So you said it, first of
all, gets rid of the germs.

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The heat kills the germs.

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Second, this is much
easier to store

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than a big box of
trash would be...

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>> Sarah Shull: Absolutely.

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>> Brandi Dean: ...and then
hopefully you can not only,

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you know, get those
good purposes out of it

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but also reuse it
for something else.

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>> Sarah Shull: Right,
radiation.

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>> Brandi Dean: Yeah.

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>> Sarah Shull: Radiation's
something

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that we're definitely concerned
about and trying to figure out.

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>> Brandi Dean: Yeah.

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>> Sarah Shull: So
that's a major concern

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for going into deep --

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>> Brandi Dean: Solutions
for us, so.

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>> Sarah Shull: Yeah, so we're
developing a second-generation

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of the heat- melt compactor,
and the tiles are actually going

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to be square with --
just for the reason

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that it's easier to repurpose.

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You know, if you've got a
layer of tiles layering around,

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you have to have a lot
of overlap to cover.

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>> Brandi Dean: Right.

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>> Sarah Shull: Whereas,
square you can kind

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of put them end-to-end
and get a nice coverage.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay, so the
heat compactor, how big is that?

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Is that something --

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>> Sarah Shull: The Gen 1 unit
is probably about the size

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of this glove box if it were
turned, you know, on its side.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: For the Gen
2 we're making it smaller

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because we know that volume is
very, you know, limited in space

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and the Deep Space Hab.

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So it's going to be two
express rack locker size.

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The size of two express
rack lockers,

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which is roughly probably half
the size of this glove box.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: So
we're constraining it

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to be that small.

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We want to make sure
that it's not taking

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up too much volume itself.

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>> Brandi Dean: Are there other
things you could use the tiles

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for besides the radiation
protection?

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Or is that something
you're looking at?

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>> Sarah Shull: We've
brainstormed,

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and we've talked a little
bit about, you know,

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you could use them
to build dividers

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or additional partitions.

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The leading candidate
is really additional

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radiation protection...

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: ...and using
the NCTBs that we talked

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about earlier, if
folks were watching --

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>> Brandi Dean: The cargo bags.

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>> Sarah Shull: The
cargo bags, yeah.

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We've developed a schema

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that you could deploy the
tiles using those bags.

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So, you know, you could
line your crew quarters

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with a bag that's
covered in tiles.

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The tiles aren't
real pretty to look

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at so you probably
want the bag covering,

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and that would be the
side the crew would see.

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>> Brandi Dean: In green.

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Yeah.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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Well, I guess that's two of, I
think you told me four projects

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that you're working on.

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>> Sarah Shull: Yes.

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>> Brandi Dean: Do you want

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to real quick just give us a
quick overview of the other two?

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>> Sarah Shull: Yeah, so the
other two tasks that fall

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under Logistics Reduction
Repurposing,

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one is advanced clothing.

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So it's actually looking at
how do we reduce the volume

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of clothing we need
to fly for the crew

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by extending the life wear

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of the clothing before it
gets too smelly or, you know,

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too much microbial growth.

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So we're looking at
fabric stress, you know,

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fabrics we use here on earth
for long-duration clothing,

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some anti-microbial coatings.

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So the idea is --

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>> Brandi Dean: [Inaudible]
would kill the germs?

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>> Sarah Shull: Uh-huh.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: The
idea is to, you know,

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roughly double the wear time
of the clothing so you'd have

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to fly half the amount
of clothing.

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Cut down on that volume.

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>> Brandi Dean: What is the
wear time that we have now?

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>> Sarah Shull: It
varies by item.

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I don't actually have all of
them memorized, but I would say,

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you know, a pair of exercise
shorts you may wear them

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for a week.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: So we would --
if that's the actual number,

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we'd be looking at
two weeks, say.

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: Same thing,
you know, shirts and pants.

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They all have different numbers.

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The fourth task is a
trash to supply gas.

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So that is another method
of looking at what we can do

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with the trash that's generated,
and that actually looks

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at can you take the trash
that's generated and turn it

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into a useful gas like methane?

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So if you have a lander as part

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of your deep space
architecture --

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some folks are probably
familiar with Morpheus --

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that uses methane, could we
generate the methane the lander

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needs from the trash?

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>> Brandi Dean: Okay.

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>> Sarah Shull: That actually
is from our team members

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from Kennedy Space Center on
that portion of the project.

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>> Brandi Dean: Well, lots of
interesting projects going on.

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>> Sarah Shull: Yeah.

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>> Brandi Dean: Thank
you, again,

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so much for talking with us.

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>> Sarah Shull: You're welcome.

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>> Brandi Dean: This, again,

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was Sarah Shull the
Deputy Project Manager

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for the Logistics Reduction
and Repurposing Group

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of the Advanced Exploration
Systems program.